Sri Lanka Navy (SLN) logistical vessel A-520 was sunk due to heavy damages caused to its hull by an underwater explosion early morning today. The ship was attacked at approximately 2.20AM in the morning today (10th).
A-520 had been used to supply SLN's warships in deep sea operations as well and for troop and logistic transports to the Jaffna peninsula.
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ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteThe logistic vessel called Invisible ... sank due to an underwater explosion," said navy spokesman Commander D.K.P Dassanayake.
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Navy spokesman Cmdr. D.K.P. Dassanayake says the rebels attacked the cargo ship with an underwater explosion at about 2:15 a.m. He says the 213-foot (65-meter) vessel was empty.
LINK
DN
ReplyDeletewas the ship empty at the time of the attack ?
Dn
ReplyDeleteis A521 only other supply ship in SLN ?
how many supply ships are there ??
pictures of A-520
ReplyDeletehttp://www.navy.lk/index.php?id=379
Full credit to LTTE.
ReplyDeleteWhen LTTE first used SAMs then air cheif said it was a technical failiure and send second avro: His son was dead.
SLAF, SLN, SLA all have paid a lot by under estimating the enimy and carelessness.
In the EAST LTTE can find lots of easy access to important places and installations now.
ReplyDeleteFishing is unrestricted, and there are lots of constructions going on all over the place including around the harbor.
LTTE can do AAB type infiltration without much effort in EAST now.
I am not surprise, if some more NAVY vessels gonna be exploded in coming hours.
I agree with ninja.
ReplyDeleteSorry to change the subject but here is an aircraft that SLAF should keep an eye on in the future. XIAN JH-7 Flounder (Flying Leopard.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xian_JH-7
Has 23mm cannon
air to air capabillty and has anti-shipping capabillty.
Also can carry a bomb load of 6500kg (More than Kfir @ 6000kg)
STF should bare the whole responsibly of what is happening in EAST now.
ReplyDeleteThey never was able to clear kanchikudichchi Aru from LTTE. That niyathai Jaya was a total failure.
STF is skilled but useless, in the they were used. I am glad about the ARMY replacement and at least now, that jungle can be cleared from these LTTE MF once and for all.
anybody has any idea what this weapon used in this video clip.
ReplyDeleteA shoulder fired missile used by our SLDF???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUfJrZaavRE
sln suffered no casualties. ltte have admitted 3 jackasses in frogmen suits commited suicide while blowing up the logistics vessel.
ReplyDelete30 Sri Lanka Army soldiers were killed, seven dead bodies of SLA troops were recovered after heavy fighting at Ka'rukkaaykku'lam Friday morning, LTTE officials told media. Five bodies were recovered Friday morning, LTTE spokesman Irasiah Ilanthirayan said. Two more bodies were recovered Friday night, according to latest updates by the LTTE officials. Two PK Light Machine Guns, three AK LMGs, five T-56 assault rifles and military hardware including ammunitions were seized by the Tigers. The SLA, while pulling back was towing an Armoured Personnel Carrier that had caught fire, the Tigers said. Ka'rukkaaykku'lam is located 2 km east of Adampan
ReplyDeleteA troop carrier cum supply ship of the Sri Lanka Navy, A-520, named 'MV Invincible', was sunk by Sea Tiger naval commandos in the Trincomalee Harbour at 2:23 a.m. Saturday, according to the Liberation Tigers of Tamileelam (LTTE) officials in Vanni. The underwater attack by Black Tigers was carried out when the supply vessel was loaded with explosives to be transported to KKS Harbour in Jaffna,
THE HOT NEWS IS : The LTTE fired mortars towards a village in Kanchchikudichiaru, Ampara this morning preventing them from going to caste their vote at the provincial polls.
The sinhala army told that they wiped out the LTTE from the east but they are now able to fire the Mortars now.....
Shyam,
ReplyDeleteFour people including a ten year old child had received injuries due to the mortar attack on..
It cannot be a LTTEs work since there are civilian casualties..:p
Defence column-Rivira
ReplyDeleteclick here.
sinking of this ship is very serious.Since it was also used as a supply ship for deep sea operations it means that there area large number of LTTE supply ships waiting to dock..so the purpose of this was to reduce the deep sea operations capacity of the SLN.
ReplyDeleteThis is another sign of SLN's ineffectiveness. After last November SLN seems to be in a downward movement.
ReplyDeletefor the past 6 months it has lost more than 4 crafts and it is unacceptable.
the last major confrontation with the tigers was also far from imressive. in that about 20 tiger boats had attacked SLN crafts destroying one UFAC or FAC while tigers have lost 6 boats. this means 14 tiger boats escaped. a massive faiulre of 70% (14/20*100%) + 1 U/FAC detroyed.
i recon it is time SLN aollows a different strategy based on maximum destruction of tigers/tiger infrastructure.
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ReplyDeleteLTTE have wanted to do this for awhile. So they spent very long to plan it, to ensure that the attack takes place when
ReplyDeletea. No military personal are onboard.
b. No weapons and ammo are onboard.
Also the photo here
http://www.navy.lk/slideshow/gallery/2005/2005_09_25/2.jpg
ha been enlarged by elements sympathetic to the LTTE.
The actual length of 520 is 5.2 meters
Colombo harbour, Trinco habour, KAB, other military and econimical strtagic points, MR, GR, ... were not attacked by LTTE so far. It is becuz they couldn't succed so far. Either their elements getting cought or they couldn't overplay SLDF security. But at every second they in different groups keep working on their targets. SLDF may spoil 9 attempts but LTTE need just 1. SLDF simply need to be focus and keep doing their job with improvements. Public need to support SLDF just to make sure all sinhala, tamil, muslim people who live in SL will not be victims of LTTE. (Ofcourse, LTTE and thier terror di-ass-pora will do thier job to make sure all sinhala, tamil, muslim people suffer as much as possible or die.)
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteAs I mentioned this before many times, LTTE's main focus right now is Jaffna.
They want to cripple logistic capabilities of the SLN before attacking Jaffna..It is most likely LTTE is thinking Jaffna as 10 times bigger than the Elephant Pass camp.That is where their logic is. After three major engagements with the SLA, LTTE might have found some loop holes in the overall SLA strategy in Jaffna.
I am thinking if LTTE cripples all logistics supplies to Jaffna by attacking the SLN assets just like AAB last year, then the consequences are pretty bad for the SLDF.
It is most likely LTTE will use its full strength to attack Jaffna and occupy it. After occupying Jaffna, LTTE can wage war forever.
Is anyone in the SLDF thinking on those lines?
We need answers here.
You can see the evedence of yesterday's Manar defeat in the following link:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.puthinam.com/full.php?2bbZAdi7b0bcAEmLo00eccC7lq40cc373Rpn24d335Vn744b33OPXd44d4e1SC4ddd0eeXe6elde
Thamby Ninja Kunja,
ReplyDeleteIf your SLA leaves the Tamil Home land. Sinhalese, Tamils and Muslims will have a peaceful and properous life in this beautiful Island.
ReplyDeleteSince the sinking of large LTTE vessels last year, SLN is lost half a dozen vessels to the LTTE.
What is going on?
Looks like LTTE is using a mini submarine to move their attack teams across the sea.
My 2 cents...
ninja,
ReplyDeleteagree. but it is a mathematical certainty as you pointed out one day tigers will succeed attacking ALL their targets.
suppose every 3 months 10 tiger groups are trying to blow these targets and assume the success probability of each group is 4% (for argument sake, can be anything).
that means within a three months period 10 attempts would have been made on a target with a total probability of 40%; within 6 months this becomes 80% and within 9 months this becomes 120%. whenever it exceeds 100% - it becomes a certainty.
it is like playing more lotto games in a single draw and playing in many draws. it dramatically increases the chances of winning anything.
therefore it is only a matter of TIME since tigers destroy ALL these targets.
what does this mean?
this means the war must be won ASAP.
on the other hand, military op.s cannot be rushed. such a stupid decision will only end up in disaster. but op.s got to be speed-up to the max practically possible that would not unduely endager the lives of soldiers, etc.
i don't think this is being done. it took more than 6 months from thoppigala op. to really get into the vanni op.
LTTE's weakest link is its (lack of) numbers. op.s should SPECIFICALLY target HARVESTING the maximum number of terrorists.
the present attrition war is only an "enabler" of the big operation and is not used as an end in itself.
bottomline: speed up the killing rate. obsess SLDF officers on HOW to kill MORE FAST (without unduely endagering themselves).
LTTE knows that our weakest point is TIME.
If LTTE wants a seperate state, all Tamils living in the South of the Island must be moved to North.
ReplyDeleteThat must be included in any agreement.
SLN had three auxiliary vessels, P715; A520 and A521, that were being used to re-supply Jaffna and war-ships in deep-sea operations.
ReplyDeleteNow one down, two more to go.
SLN also has three logistic vessels, A540; A542 and A543, but these are personal carriers on lease.
Two more similar strikes in Trinco, and SLA will start feeling the pinch in Jaffna.
We welcome Mr Tangara
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletetangara dont sink to the same level as these peelam donkeys. i very much appreciate the fact that sri lanka is a multicultural nation.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.dailynews.lk/2008/05/10/news42.asp
ReplyDelete["We are indebted for those heroes who made the supreme sacrifice so that the country could prosper and the people could live a normal life.
Their last breath will be inhaled by the current and future generations of Sri Lankans with immense gratitude", he said.
]
I completely agree with moshedyan. In all the wars we fought we aquired only land. Our strategy was pushing the enemy away, not killing them. Best example was Rivirasa. The last area we captured was the land connection to the main land so that they could get away. If we moved to the land connection first then moved northwards they could have been trapped. Now we are paying the price of it. They even had the chance to take hospital beds of Jaffna hospital.
ReplyDeleteWhat are we doing now, pusing. Not killing.
Whether there was no explosives or any personnel in this ship it is still a ship. it would cost millions to buy a new one. We should give credit to the LTTE. We should protect our boys as well as our assests. What is the point in saying it was ok, no lives were lost or it was anchord out side harbour. The eastern commander of navy should be held responsible for this. Couldn't he see that this ship was vulnerable? LTTE in the past suceeded even attacking inside the high security zone.
We cannot afford to loose even a samll dingy.
retaliation comes within 10 hours!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.defence.lk/new.asp?fname=20080510_07
hopefully things will speed up after the eastern PC poll. the proroguation of parliament is also helpful.
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ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteMboi and all LTTE diehards,
My argument is simple. This is if LTTE succeed in establishing ealam..
LTTE's main claim to establish Eealm is that Sinhaeles people are evil. Therefore no peace loving Tamil can live with Sinhalese..If LTTE achives ealam then all Tamil people can live in North and leaving Sinhalese alone.The Sinhalese in South can live peacefully too without LTTE's terrorism.I don't see a problem in that. I meant no descrimination against any tamil person here..
That is the perfect solution as far as I can see.
Do you still think that I am wrong?
The boat commanders of the SL Navy used to have a duty free beer allocation and a cigarret quota. They used to anchor in deep seas to watch poppular teledramas. Trinco navy eshtablishment is the most luxurious navy camp in Sri Lanka. Senior officers used to play basket ball with the pretty navy girls and have parties almost every night in the wardroom.
ReplyDeleteHope they have come out of the Roayal Sri lankan Navy traditions. You shouls visit places like Dover castle to see how british troops sufferd during WWII without even basic fascilities still being one of the richest nations in the world.
I forgot one more thing here..
ReplyDeleteWe also need to bring in Chinese Army to counter any threats from India and Ealam.
I would prefer Chinese army to a have a massive base in North where the borders are.
LOl
ReplyDeletehttp://www.defence.lk/new.asp?fname=20080510_07
How predictable was this?
Just as the LTTE planned and attacked a ship while it had no SLN / weapons / ammo onboard,
LTTE had also moved-out half its weapons and ammou for SLAF to raget in the "retaliatory" air-strike, that even a five-yearold would have been expecting.
Tangara,
ReplyDeleteWhat you are saying is correct buddy.
Please contact below # to confirm it.
2930842 :Hendala.
2930842 Director.
General Numbers. 2930842
Mulleriyawa. 2578276. 2872334
ReplyDeleteThis is the way British seperated the Pakistanis and Indians..
If UN is coming to do just that then let it be. Otherwise we should wage war against the LTTE no matter what.
That is why it is important for the GOSL to remind the International Community that ealam means, asking Tamils to leave South.
B#1,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the phone no..I will contact. No problem.
I don't know which side you are on and I don't care.
What is likely, if the stalemate continues and India pushes for another CFA, Velu might go for the UDI.
When that happens , GOSL might be in for real shocker.
To avoid the confusion it is better to be prepared.
mottapala,
ReplyDeletein all decisions about "attacks" may it be in defence, sports, marketing, debating, pest control, etc. the weakest point of the enemy is attacked MOST FEROCIOUSLY (although its strong points are also attacked to an extent).
this war should not be an exception.
the problem is the "pushing" or "chasing away" strategy is planned at the top. the army commander declared last year that he will "flush out" the tigers. although hairs can be split on what exactly that measn, it simply means what the SLA actually did: chased tigers away from the east to the north AND THE SOUTH!!
at the last major SLN-sea tigers confrontation, SLN had "managed" to chase away tiger boats (to sri lanka of course!!).
MBRL and arti. fire is directed mostly at chasing away tigers than killing the max.
the other bad thing about the chasing away strategy is that it requires a VERY LARGE ARMY to keep away those tigers from coming back! this is ridiculous. in fact chasing away is easy; keeping them continuously at bay is almost impossible.
the next bad thing is the terrain also helps the tigers. if they survive the SLA and manages to run away, chances are very high that they will survive and make good use of the terrain.
if you take the east, it is not difficult for the LTTE to com by boats to east and attack again because they have men, material, machines and of course methods (plenty).
so the "chasing away" strategy has many ripple effects (only bad ones) on SLDFs.
i can't understand why MoD, etc. cannot get this.
tigers OTOH knows SL lacks time. there are many timebombs like inflation, economy, politics, IC intervention, etc. awaiting.
they also know the "war-antiwar" cycles of SL.
so they only need to play for time. what a support they have from the "chasing away" strategy!!!
tangara & B#1,
ReplyDeletei agree that SL "may" have to have the chinese forces here. (may be tangara copied it from one of my posts!!- just kidding)
that will preempt IC interfering here. OTOH china does not want a pro-western terroristan (with ALOT of connections to the east) in the indian ocean. SL needs a mighty "husband" to save herself in the barbaric battlefield out there ever trying to screww small countries.
extreme example: sudan. OMG the crimes they do in darfur! but even the UN cannot intervene. why? because china has many contracts (oil-weapons, etc.) with sudan.
another extreme example: israel
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ReplyDeleteMoshey D
ReplyDeleteYou are right. But let me add this to that 'mathematical certainty'. You assume a positve probablity for the LTTE success. SLDF need to make the probability of LTTE success goes to zero. Then LTTE failure also 'mathematical certainty'.
Puli and other tigers,
I didn't mean to hurt you. In 1980s only few thousand SLA were in whole NE with zero LTTE KIA. Demand was same. Now you have multiplied SLA in NE plus 20000+ LTTE KIA. What you planted was your harvest. Whoever wins the east election loser is LTTE. Enjoy sinking the SLN vessel. (if you want to insult me please use english, I don't understand tamil-sorry)
Moshey D
ReplyDeleteWe need to understand this too before blaming SLA on 'chasing away.' Its not that SLA let LTTE run away without killing and announced chasing away. When SLA try to kill LTTE will run, survive, to fight another day. Both SLA and LTTE know this. But public don't understand ground realities. That's why 'chased away' pops up in GSL propaganda.
Mboi and B#1,
ReplyDeleteSince there are no counter arguments from you guys against what I mentioned earlier, I have to consider that you concede defeat.
Am I correct?
Going once...
Moshe,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the feedback..
Honestly I didn't copy , remember explaining the whole thing in 9 points about 2 monts ago.
tangara,
ReplyDeleteof course you didn't copy!!!
its just that i agree 100% with the argument that we "may" have to get 'involved help' from a powerful regional nation.
Can you guys tell me a single operation where our main aim was to trap and kill terrorists?
ReplyDeleteWell LTTE has done it.
ninja,
ReplyDeletemathematically, going by the theory of probability, it is not certain that SLDF can make LTTE's success rate zero.
it follows the famous statement "you have to lucky everytime, but we only need to be lucky once".
to make LTTE's success rate zero, SLDFs must succeed everytime which is not a certainty.
suppose SLDFs have the capability to bust 99.9% of daily tiger attempts.
this means over a period of a year (365 days), this probability drops to 69.407% leaving a 30.593% success rate to tigers.
if 2 years (730 days) are taken, SLDF success probability (to avoid a terror attack EVERYDAY) drops to 48.1733% which means tigers have a success probability of 51.8267%.
this simply means over a period of 2 years tigers have a better chance of succeeding at least once than SLDF manages to spoil tigers' attempts everyday.
i see you argument. if SLDF success rate EVERYDAY is 100%, then LTTE success rate becomes 0%.
but you will agree that this is not practically possible. not even the US agencies are capable of doing this.
therefore the longer it takes to annihilate the tigers, the higher the probability of a terror attack.
(OK, this is not my original thinking. i copied from somewhere. credit to the source.)
mottapala,
ReplyDeleteactually i remember two 'limited op.s'
one in welioya area(??) in august 1995.
a very large number of tigers (at least 300) died and were in polythene bags. according to some news sources, the stinct could be felt even from a heli.!!! don't know how true this is. SLAF K-8s wreck real havoc on tigers.
was commanded by janaka perera. (he WAS a great guy to say the least; i don't like to comment on recent developments as it will drag this good discussion into dirty politics.)
the other in killali in 1996 where SLAF bombed the shitt out of tigers killing a very large number (unfortunately a few people also had died). video footage showed damaged large buses, upturned boats and complete destruction.
tangara,
ReplyDeleteAs always, you present a sound point here. However, please don't even talk about "if" scenario, that should not be allowed to happen.
- Sri Lanka is a democracy, we will never be able to move all Tamils from south to north. This will be modern day equivalent of Idi Amin throwing Asians out. It will not be tolerated by other countries and it is not possible at all. It is ok to send back those who have come to the south in the past few years, but what about those people who call south their home, those who have been there for 100's of years? This is not possible mate.
- In any case, why do we want to get rid of our Tamil friends who contribute so much to the society and economy?
- 2 states in 1 island model will not work. The suffering of poor people will not end as there will be an arms race like India/Pakistan in our little island.
So, I don't think this 2 state scenario should be talked about even on "if" terms!
My father also said that LTTE must have a mini-submarine when they sank that Dvora. I laughed at him, but maybe both of you are right!
SLN (and SLA & SLAF) need to think outside the box like this if we are to win this war.
tangara,
ReplyDeleteAs I see it, West+India+China+Russia agree that SL is in the natural sphere of influence of India.
Except India, which can dictate terms to SL, all others try to gain influence over SL in their subtle battles with India. Weaker the GOSL, better for all, even for India!
Division of SL is most welcome by all except India which fears its own disintegration as a result. It will turn the whole region into a killing field from where the present day SL may look a peaceful heaven.
China will not commit troops to SL because, for the moment, India has enough means to prevent it..
So it is for us to trace the best course of action for ourselves. We have to be prepared to defend ourselves even without no outside help. Ours Forces has to work hard to earn itself a name. Defence.lk has just begun, army.lk must step in line..
If we have no will to survive, no Gods can help us. Life is never smooth sailing,. It is not surprising that a Nation castrated by Colonialists with free rice, empty heads and institutionalised treachery, is bound to flounder many a times but if we have the will to succeed, we will prevail.
For me, the current battles are the birth pains of a great SRI LANKAN NATION not of a divided island..
OUR WILL, WILL PREVAIL.
tangara, Moshe Dyan,
ReplyDeleteIsn't what you are suggesting like "inguru deela miris gaththa wage"? I'd rather have US Army in SL than the Chinese. I'm not being ungrateful here, I know that China has always supported us in this war. But in my opinion, world would be a far worse place if China was the only super-power!
Anything that GOSL does, it needs to keep in mind that nobody does anything (in the international scene) out of pure love. They do it with this question in mind - what's in it for us?
So, great, get help from China, but don't let them open up a base here. After all, we have to learn from our own history (remember chasing away Portuguese with Dutch help?).
Anyway, about this "chasing away" theory, sure we chased them from East. But if the war continues, then that may turn out to be a stroke of genius.
Think about it, now we don't have to concentrate on "killing" tigers in the east. SLA can fully concentrate on Wanni. If eastern front was still open, then SLA will be stretched to limits and it will get hit left right and centre.
So, I say chasing away is fine as long as we continue to chase. One day, tigers will have no place else to run and will have to face SLA. This will be the main battle in Wanni and one party will win.
However, this is assuming that the war is being fought with the aim of finishing it off this time (unlike previous times!).
We have to give credit to LTTE. They are really good at exploiting weaknesses in our system. Our weaknesses include:
ReplyDelete- Negligence
- Long term memory loss
- Reluctance to learn from previous mistakes
- Moles inside the system
- Corrupt officers
- Easily changeable morals (SLR 50,000 was enough for a Sinhalese to plant a bomb in a Piliyandala bus)
- Bad leadership
- Hidden political agenda
- Poverty
- Bad management
- Commitment issues
- Arrogance
- Inefficiency
- Stupidity
etc. etc.
LTTE are good at picking one of these weaknesses and exploiting it to the max.
We beg SLDF to learn from past mistakes but they never learn. If they had done so, we would have NEVER parked such a vital logistics vessel outside the HSZ. How stupid was that?
So, patriots, for as long as we continue to be "us", then be prepared to be heart broken many a times!
Parakrama, Mathematica,
ReplyDeleteFully agree...
Parakrama,
ReplyDeleteVery intresting points mate..Spot on..
ninja,
ReplyDeletemathematically, going by the theory of probability, it is not certain that SLDF can make LTTE's success rate zero.
war can not be calculated by the theory of probability ..the probability have other answers too if anything went wrong there is nothing to talk about .. A war can be win by perfect strategy and planning ...
According to ma knowledge LTTE will make an offensive some where else before they attempt on Jaffna ...mostly it will be Mannar ...
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ReplyDeletetangara,
ReplyDeleteThanks mate!
MathaMathica,
"a Nation castrated by Colonialists with free rice, empty heads and institutionalised treachery" - Well said, how true is this!
"institutionalised treachery" to this day continue to hinder us, many so called "elite" in this country only thinks about themselves and how to keep their "status".
Time for a revolution I say, not with fire-arms, but inside our heads!
tangara u r an idiot. i dont even have to validate your 'perfect solution' of ethnic cleansing and bringing in the chinese army. is your father the communist party leader in china?
ReplyDelete"According to ma knowledge LTTE will make an offensive some where else before they attempt on Jaffna"
ReplyDeleteMy guess is they'll try Mars or the Moon.
Anyway, about this foreign base being opened up in SL, they'll have their eyes on Trinco harbour. They're not going to come and open up a base in Muhamalai or somewhere like that. And they are not going to come here because they feel sorry for us, but only if there's something in it for them (and that something has to be very large). And it's going to have a lot of repercussions on us too, particularly as its going to be very large as they'd want it to be independent. (Look what's happening in Japan about the US bases) People are no going to tolerate any 'misconducts' from them, unlike our own army. And you can bet they are going to happen, being far from their own country and having the attitude of being a 'superior force'. I don't think we should be going for something like that unless we are in a really desperate situation.
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ReplyDeleteMboi,
ReplyDeleteNice to know that I am an idiot.
Ethnic cleansing is not the correct word..
But it will happen whether you like it or not , in the event ealam comes in to effect.
UNP's CFA would have done just that.But that is history..
Now all depends on the outcome of the war. CFA was the handy work of India and no one knew that until recently.
If the stalemate continues, then there is possibility India will come up with CFA 2 and forced ealam on us..
This whole discussion is based on one assumption..If ealam comes in to effect with the blessings of India.
It is only an IF.
You seems to jumped in to the band wagon and calling names..
You didn't come up with any counter arguments..
Only an idiot will call someone
an idiot for nothing.
Regarding the other question whether my Father is the communist party boss in China..I wish that so then I can ask my father to bring the Chinese army in.
Grow up..
tangara, i already made my argument in the previous post. ethnic cleansing is forcibly displacing or exterminating an ethnic population from a particular area in order to assert the identity and power of another ethnic group. only an idiot would advocate ethnic cleansing. your perfect solution (funny you should call it that, the nazis called theirs the 'final solution') is no different from prabhakaran's to establish his eelam.
ReplyDeleteVoting ended at 4.00pm. According to reports received at the close of the poll, the estimated voter turnout was approximately 65% ,55%,60% in Ampara, Batticaloa and Trincomalee respectively.
ReplyDeleteCounting will commence around 8.00pm. for postal votes.
-Dept. of elections
Mboi,
ReplyDeleteAgree..The funny thing is that Velu already done his home work and chased 100000 muslims and 20000sinhalese from Jaffna.
Now you tell me if that is OK with the International community then why can't the GOSL do the opposite in case Ealam comes into effect.
Sinhalse will do just that.
My two cents.
parakrama,
ReplyDeletei do not agree to the "chaseing away" strategy at all; mate.
in the east if we had killed tigers, the same level of peace would have prevailed + no tissamaharama/moneragala like incidents would have occured.
the biggest problem with the chase away strategy is tigers will retain the 4 Ms necesary for any venture.
Men
Materials
Machines
Methods.
but it stretches our 4 Ms too much. another effect is the SLDFs will have to face the SAME resistance from the tigers even after many "victories" as they have their arsenal in tact. unfortunately this is what we are seeing in muhamalai, etc REPEATEDLY. i'm sure some of the thousands of LTTE bastards that escaped from the east has taken part in the recent muhamalai battle. WE WILL HAVE TO FIGHT THOSE WHOM WE DEFEATED AGAIN (AND AGAIN)
LTTE has launched a mortar attack in the east today and a gun battle had erupted between tigers and TMVP. the govt. claims tigers will come back to east if UNP wins the election. this may be political bluff; may be not.
i see no reason why LTTE cannot retake parts of the east again.
if jayasikuru is not good enough an example, i do not know a better example of the ineffectiveness of the chase away strategy.
but many top militarymen i talked to disagreed with me. they don't think a large scale killing campaign will be effective but none of them gave me a reason. it was their "personal belief" they said.
anyway i do not wish to convince anyone as we are sharpely divided on this and i respect other views.
Mboi,
ReplyDeleteOne more thing,
I have not asked for extermination of any race..
I don't know where you got that.
Come on guys, why the hell is everyone arguing here??? Is this now a fightnet or something like that? Why can't we just discuss a matter without calling names and ridiculing the others' opinions? If somebody doesn't agree with our opinion is it necessary to insult them instead of explaining your point of view to them? In the past few days, the only things that have been in this blog are arguments, not discussions. Is it surprising that this blog is losing its readers? For me this blog has been a great source of information about the war in SL, but now I don't see much of that.
ReplyDelete"voter turnout was approximately 65% ,55%,60% in Ampara, Batticaloa and Trincomalee "
ReplyDeleteTMVP tendencies 55%
SLMC ones 65%
clearly SLMC has the advantage. i had no doubt they would win.
shittt.
chamal,
ReplyDeletethere is a discussion going on about a "change in strategy" (did i describe it properly???)
All right moshe, I'll change it to 'some discussions at least are going on' confused with the arguments and the insultings lol. OK...let's say it's all right to argue as well, but there's no need to insult each other as what's happening here.
ReplyDeleteChamal,
ReplyDeleteFully agree with you guys.
It started with a spark perhaps by me...Now its almost a bush fire.
Moshe Dyan,
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, we shouldn't have to fight the same enemy over and over again.
My point was that if we are conducting the war properly then it is advantageous for us to trap them into one or two districts.
However, if we are to follow this strategy, we have to assume the following:
- LTTE is not allowed to set up base again in the east
- We engage LTTE with proper planning (e.g. cut off their supply & escape routes)
- We are able to fight LTTE head on in the Wanni
This is why I said that chasing them away from the east was fine as long as we are conducting the war properly.
What you are saying is that we should have cleared the east by killing max no of terrorists. But, if they stayed up and put up a fight would we have been able to liberate the east so quickly?
What would have happened if they launch a counter attack on other fronts (Mannaar, Weli Oya, Vauniya & National Front) while SLA was 100% engaged in the east?
I think letting them escape from the east (if that in fact was our strategy) was good because:
- they lost fairly large number of men during the retreat
- they morale would have been dented
- they lost a fair amount of weapons (e.g. MBRL that army recovered etc.)
- we gained a morale booster
- now the east can be used as our "showpiece" in displaying to the world that LTTE is not the sole rep of Tamils
It doesn't matter if we fight them in the east or in the north, we have to fight and kill them at the end of the day. So, is it not better to fight them on a smaller front with more intensity that trying to take on a guerrilla force spread all over the east and the north?
Jayasikurui failed not because it was chasing tigers away, but because the aim of the operation was at best un-sustainable. Can you imagine maintaining a very narrow column through hard-core guerrilla territory? It was planned badly from the beginning.
So, my point is that “chase away” strategy is fine up to a point.
But my fear is that there may be a change in leadership (it could be an LTTE triggered event) and we may lose all the gains that we have made so far in a very short time period.
So, let's wait and see and hope for the best!
Chamal, tangara, Moshe,
ReplyDeleteI agree with you guys? After all, if we are going to learn, then we have to exchange our ideas and this could be done very effectively through arguments.
However, arguments should be conducted properly. Name calling is just childish, so is sentimental crap that changes the subject!!
For all these years, LTTE is not letting their guard down in Muhamale front.Even after loosing several hundreds of fighters in 2006 LTTE is no where near giving up Muhamale-Nagarkovil front. One thing is clear, LTTE will not withdraw from Jaffna front no matter what.
ReplyDeleteThat is their long term strategic plan.
Looks like LTTE is willing to give up Mannar front.
I am over and out.
Hope our boys will not go to sleep.
With my controversial comment earlier . I ignite the SLEEPY blog..
ReplyDeletelol..
We should get an AC-130U 'Spooky'
ReplyDeleteWe could destroy the whole of Wanni with that monster although it costs almost $200 million. It’s like a flying artillery launch pad!
60 percent voter turnout
ReplyDeleteThe Elections Commissioners department says a 60 percent overall voter turnout was reported from the provincial council polls in the East.
@ son_of_a_gun
ReplyDeletenice idea on the spooky/spectre gunship.it can really tear up a target area with prescision..
if you look at the operational principle its soo very easy.its basically like bolting a vulcan cannon(of A10 warthog fame) spanwise on to a medium/large plane, with the gun muzzle protruding beneath the wing spanwise.all the pilot does is bank the plane till the wing tips are in line with the ground target,and fire away.its like picturing an inverted conical pendulam.
one thing that never fails to amaze me is the lack of support to build something locally....such a shame..
this is something the ltte dont seem to be lacking one bloody bit!
silentknight,
ReplyDeleteI agree completely with you! If LTTE can produce home made mortars, why can't we? Some of the stuff that they come up with are very imaginative.
What we need is a good R&D division and a "what if" team, let me explain:
One of my good mates is a civil engineer and he said he'll be heading the regional team on building new wave of nuclear power stations in the UK. He says that their job is to plan and build the structure that the reactor will be enclosed in. When I queried him about safety of nuclear energy, he said that these power stations are as safe as they can be as there are dedicated "what if" teams. Their sole job is to think up weird scenarios and present these situations to engineering team. The engineering team can then evaluate if their structure can withstand what ever "what if" team comes up with.
So, we need a "what if" team in defending our military bases (especially big ones like KAB, AAB, Trinco, KKS etc.).
However, the unfortunate truth is that we never learn even from our mistakes let alone do some creative thinking! What our lack of thinking does is to make those bloody tigers look good!
Moshe Dyan
ReplyDeleteThe great isralei commander and defence minister,used the element of surprise by pre empting the strike in the six day war. Israel, under pressure and facing the might of the arab forces pre empted an attack and surprised the enemy. Egyptian forces were over powred with greater fire power and precise planning.
quote 'Sharon initiated an attack, precisely planned, coordinated and carried out. He sent two of his brigades to the north of Um-Katef, the first one to break through the defenses at Abu-Ageila to the south, and the second to block the road to El-Arish and to encircle Abu-Ageila from the east. At the same time, a paratrooper force was heliborne to the rear of the defensive positions and destroyed the artillery, preventing it from engaging Israeli armor and infantry. Combined forces of armor, paratroopers, infantry, artillery and combat engineers then attacked the Egyptian position from the front, flanks and rear, cutting the enemy off. The breakthrough battles, which were in sandy areas and minefields, continued for three and a half days until Abu-Ageila fell.' unquote
In the Yom Kippur battle Syria surpised Israel and crossed the Golan Heights but the Israeli's fought back and maintained momentum which was the their advantage and eventuallly pushed the Arabs back.
My point here Moshe is canot the SLA or rather the SLDF's jointly exploit the superiority they have with strength, fire power, total air superiority and capable command over run muhamalai Pooneryn sector with precise co-ordianted planning and brute force. Isn't it a quicker way to Killinochchi.
Agree loss of life in SLDF should be minimised bt with the Mechnised Infantry and heavy guns....
your take on this pl.... I quoted Israel in jest, for your names sake.
@ parakrama,
ReplyDeleteyou said it!,..we need to establish a dedicated R&D setup...better late than never....or amybe even employ the service s of existing R&D facilities such as the "NERD" facility....that would be more easier than going through the logistics of having to start from ground-up...
all that needs to be done is to streamline its ideology/fabrication towards present military requirements.add a team of thinkers, having specializations in different fields,throw at them the problems and come up with viable answers to suit our needs.
actually if im correct, Dr Ray Wijewardena had a lot to do in making the "NERD" facility a reality...some of his inventions are on permanent display in there.
Security Check?
ReplyDeleteWhat is it about us Tamil men that attracts you guys so much?
http://www.lankaenews.com/English/files/news/2102police_Checking_Big.jpg
[suppose SLDFs have the capability to bust 99.9% of daily tiger attempts.
ReplyDeletethis means over a period of a year (365 days), this probability drops to 69.407% leaving a 30.593% success rate to tigers.
if 2 years (730 days) are taken, SLDF success probability (to avoid a terror attack EVERYDAY) drops to 48.1733% which means tigers have a success probability of 51.8267%. ]
Moshe Dyan wants to prove that he is a great probability theoretician who predicts the war trends just as ivy college Phd mathematicans think that they can predict the market at WallStreet. One hidden part of any global market is the human behavior which can't be judged by any mathematical statistics. The same goes with will of LTTE to fight for another day. Time and time again they have proved that how resilient they are. Tamils think that they are fighting for righteous war, that's where the intangible aspects of LTTE comes into picture.
Shyam mentioned earlier that LTTE will go for Mannar front before Jaffna.
ReplyDeleteI would say Tour De Eelam's mountainous stage is Jaffna. If you capture the Jaffna, it's more like you win the Tour De France. 600k+ of Jaffna people are vital part of LTTE's survival.
LTTE are always mysterious.
ReplyDeleteYou cannot bring them into any formula. Their actions have not been predicted in the past by any military analysts but Taraki is somewhat exceptional. They do not announce their military operations publicly before they carry out. They do not discuss their military affairs with the keyboard warriors like in this forums or take advice from the bloggers who search things in Google and started to advise profusely.
In due time Karuna will be freed from the detention too.
ReplyDeletesilentknight,
ReplyDeleteThe AC-130 also has a M102 howitzer. That is artillery power with pin point precision.
Maybe SLAF should modify its C130 Hercules into an AC130! Or even a smaller cargo plane would do, with some FLIR optics etc.
I agree on the fact that we should do more defence R&D instead of spending so much money on imports.
Even the tigers make/modify their own planes. Our arms industry is pre world war II or non-existent if you ask me! If the tigers can do it, we can do it better!
Guys,
ReplyDeleteTigers talk to themselves - it is a shortcut to boredom, not the illusive freedom you lot search for.
I'm afraid to say that all the nerds of the NERD-defence unit will be high on the list of the tigers and they will be dead before you know it. Unfortunately the tigers have the edge on assassinations and the like. See what happened to the maha sohon brigade...
ReplyDeleteThe identities of the NERD people will have to remain secret, not an easy task...
@ son of a gun.
ReplyDeleteWe have c-130s in the air force if we could modify one we would have a similar weapon at a fraction of the cost. Issues :
1. Intelligence, we would need more UAV's to identify LTTE trucks from Other trucks
2. Target for LTTE, Once this thing is made the airport security needs to beefed up.
3. AA fire, Slow moving and huge, ideal for shooting down unlike fast fighters.
4. Effect on war, When the americans used them in Veitnam they were used to little to cut off supplies to Viet Kong. Though Vanni is different could have the same problem.
DefenceNet,
ReplyDeletewhat is the reason for so many soldiers to be MIA.?..what are the factors that contribute to them being classified as MIA.
Dnet
ReplyDeletedivaina.com reports
Army captures 850 km2
is it true ?
parakrama, tangara & chamal,
ReplyDeletefully agree. there is completely no need for name calling and rediculing here. we are all for a terror-free SL and discussions or 'arguments' lets do it professionally.
but all 4 of us have actually done so professionally with each other. haven't we?
its nice to 'argue' nicely.
and thanks tangara for bringing an intresting topic to wake us up in the idst of gloomy news!!
This could be a submarine attack.... they were trying to build one for a long time.....lets no do the mistake we did for the air attack
ReplyDeleteshan,
ReplyDeletethanks bro. for the kind words although it relates to the real moshe dayan!
BTW i have a jewish connection i know you won't call me names.
"My point here Moshe is canot the SLA or rather the SLDF's jointly exploit the superiority they have with strength, fire power, total air superiority and capable command - JUST LOVE THIS DESCRIPTION over run muhamalai Pooneryn sector with precise co-ordianted planning and brute force."
I agree with the first part (that is exactly what we should exploit in this war) but disagree with the latter part. we cannot use brute force as it can cause ALOT of casualties to SLA from APMs, landmines, shells, etc. but if you are taking about a "mini-Normandy landing" type brute force initiated by a heavy air force bombardment, then yes.
SF-3 aka long ranger's blog has detailed analysis of a possible EPS assault.
actually the 1967 war was a better reflection of MD than the 1973 one.
'pre-emption" was the key word as you mentioned. however, in the SL theatre, LTTE has been launching pre-emptive attacks on KIA, AAB, trinco, welioya, etc. with extreme success.
we have limited opportunities to launch pre-emptive attacks as we are the aggressor. but 'neutralising' LTTE positions is a limited application of pre-emption.
times eye,
ReplyDeletedefence wore carries a new article on this.
Yov guys whats the reason for the shut down the parliament for a month..?
ReplyDeleteThe prices are gonna increase and people here who support MR organization be ready to enjoy ... be ready to buy a loaf of bread for 100/-
Hey guys,
ReplyDeleteThis comment is not relevant to the post. The government should take control of the Sri Lanka article in www.wikipedia.org. I have seen people changing it from time to time. It is possible that LTTE might take advantage of this and change it in a way justify their actions. I think ICTA should take this resposibility..
thanks
Islander,
ReplyDeleteTaking control of an article is not possible I think. Wikipedia articles are supposed to be neutral so the government can't take control of something about itself. Anyway when you make a major change to an article you have to give the sources where you found that information, which means you can't just write bullcrap that comes into your head. And the articles are constantly monitored for vandalism of that type, and they don't stay there for long. This kind of thing has happened and is happening in a lot of articles related to SL and LTTE, which are now subjected to editing restrictions. So something like what you mentioned is very unlikely to happen.
Folks, off the topic, mine fields
ReplyDeleteWhy cant we use light Aluminium ladders with four legs fixed at the ends to cross a mine field. Each solider with a ladder can make a safe path for all.
Too naive?
mathamathica,
ReplyDeleteEvery method has its advantages and disadvantages. In your method, the soldier has to run in a narrow straight line without any cover, making it easier for the enemy to shoot at him. He can't dodge to the sides etc. to avoid enemy fire. To do something like that, you'll need REALLY HEAVY covering fire. Not ideal for our battles, particularly as our people don't get enough air support to keep the enemy pinned down while the troops advance.
Dooms Day for Muslims.
ReplyDeleteDespite their best efforts, Pillaiyan is going to be CM of East.
The litmus test for TMVP is on how it handles the tricky farmland issue.
(Off Topic)
ReplyDeleteUPFA won East PC. Probably Pilliyan will be the CM. This means MR almost sealed his next presidential election victory: He just need to live, without giving chance to VP. When SLA liberated the north, east will be more developed.
Long live RW. UNP now can cry about 'free and fair' election as it was the world's most corrupted election. People who saw how HectorK's vote was missed and wayambe election can have good entertainment.
Srilankan,
ReplyDeleteThe reason for so many MIA. You dont have to pay them until you find what happened to them.
have we ever respected our soldiers?
We have seen them as numbers. News articles say "only one soldier was killed". "150 soldiers were killed. compared to LTTE death toll, its very lesser."
http://www.nationalsecurity.lk/fullnews.php?id=12066
ReplyDeleteTribute to those valient men.
ReplyDeletepeter
ReplyDelete'The litmus test for TMVP is on how it handles the tricky farmland issue.'
Easy peasy japaneasy. He has already promised to give the lands grabbed by LTTE back to original muslim owners. Case closed.
He is already collecting information from people who lost their lands in north, so that soon thay can be handed over to the original owners.Hundreds of muslims and singhalese are already queing up, who were chased away by LTTE as a part of their ethnic cleanesing.
Isn't it ironic the LTTE who wanted the north east to be ethnically clean cannot clean themselves now. You could see the policeman in the photo you posted had stopped breathing so he would not be anaethetised by the thalathel smell emnating from the man!
"Easy peasy japaneasy. He has already promised to give the lands grabbed by LTTE back to original muslim owners. Case closed. "
ReplyDeleteTMVP cadres are going to sit back and watch?
Muslim exclaves such as Muttur and Kalmunai have gone wholesale to UNP. These places will surely start to feel the "pinch".
"He is already collecting information from people who lost their lands in north, so that soon thay can be handed over to the original owners.Hundreds of muslims and singhalese are already queing up"
I hope the poor folks have chairs with them.
Mottapala,
ReplyDeleteLet peter anna have a look at his crystal ball (seems to me something is wrong with the ball) and predict what's going to happen in the future. The rest of can wait and see what actually happens instead of making predictions. After all, these foresighted people consulted their crystal balls and told us that Madhu will not fall, Adampan will not fall, SLA is going to be roasted by new weapons of the LTTE if they ever set foot in Madhu etc etc.
@ son_of_a_gun,
ReplyDeleteas i know it,..we have two C-130 hercules craft,...but one has a major fuselage structural failure.so that is as good as useless,..the cost of rebuilding it is not practical from what i hear.....still, if our guys are innovative, we could use that to source spares for the existing craft.
man ,...you guys have no idea how much i wish we had a effective R&D.!!!.....
As a singhalese i would like Commander Pilliyan in power in the eastern province.No offense to any ethic group here.NOT ALL muslims are bad people neither are the tamils or sinhalese for that matter but we need to find out who has profitted as "middlemen" here in the eastern province over the years..profiting on the blood of innocent people cannot to tolerated at any cost.
ReplyDeleteFull credit to military intelligence for catching 18 murderous bastards of an assumed 24ii (i assume a 100).However we have to protect the "human rights" of the 18.It does not matter if they wanted to deprive many innocent people of their human rights.I know we cant put them up in the marriot in toronto..but i wonder if they will settle for accommodations at presidents house..we can build some rooms for them there if necessary.
If Navy persons are caught accepting blood money from the LTTE..ALL their assets should be acquisitioned by the govt and sold to compensate the victims,Their names publicly humiliated in the press and finally executed by firing squad.
I remeber Baberselvam vowing to make SL a living hell sometime ago. When I last phoned my friends in SL they were enjoying a cool beer by the beach. No news about the hell he was talking about.
ReplyDeleteJokers like peter I am sure are idling at home being unable to do anything productive towrds their mother country or the host country but try to spread their venom towards mankind through the net. This is inferiority complex. They are a falure to the society.
DefenceNet,
ReplyDeleteYou have not answered my question as to why so many SLA persons appear to "get lost" in all these battles..Is it due to substandard communications equipment/lack of it or bad leadership..pls dont answer if topic is sensitive..
Can anybody find out whether there was a party in the wardroom of Trinco navy eshtablisment on the night the ship was sunk?
ReplyDeleteI bet my ass there was one!
Soon we will see 'Matara Bath kade' in Killinochchi. We could hold mega musical shows in there where tamils girls and boys could dance till morning to Bathiya & Santhush. They would understand there is a life other than sacrificing their asses for a Joker.
ReplyDeleteThen Tamil diaspora can send their money to build roads and schools, so that their brothern can start learnin a, b c & d.
mottapala,
ReplyDeleteEven if there was no party..is it not logical to have some protection for ships.This is like parking a MI-24 gunship in an artillary field.what is the point of spending $$$$ if you have no protection for your assets.I appreciate that it is very difficult to guard against a determined Suicide bomber..surely how about some electronics.?As for this suicide bomber the chances are that she was raped by a "tiger bull/s".you know a bit of the nukee..not the army..
"Then Tamil diaspora can send their money to build roads and schools, so that their brothern can start learnin a, b c & d."
ReplyDeleteOr maybe they'll turn their attention to shift their 'homeland' to Canada and demand part of Canada from them, saying they've been living in Canada since 2000 BC. Then of course, a glorious liberation struggle will begin while the whole Canadian history is altered to suit it. After some time, they will start announcing daily that they are performing tactical withdrawals to bring in the Canadian forces and trap them. (The rest of the procedure will also be carried out; A canadian fighter will be shot down each month, canadian forces will launch artillery attacks on innocent civilians, Canadian forces' assaults will be repulsed and thwarted on a daily basis etc. ) Eventually eelam will be achieved in Canada same as they achieved it in Sri Lanka.
@ Moshe Dyan
ReplyDeleteI am certainly not calling you names, I like your analysis in given situations so pointed my question at you. Yes, i am a great fan of the likes of the real Moshe Dayan.
I am off topic so pardon me guys.
brute force, i mean the likes of 'the battle for hindenberg line' rather than a'mini normandy' because we don't seem to have the capability of a landing of that magnitude albeit the smaller scale. Hindenberg battle had it's failures due to lack of proper communication and errors of judgement by the Brit commander who couldn't even exploit a gap in the german line. But i refer to the force they used - i've read they used over 1.7 million shells (wikipedia) and over a 1000 tanks. that we could do in the scale we speak of. Silence the enemy indirect fire (as you keep saying)- an avid ready of Long ranger and he had said how the SLDF used an AN32B as a bait to silence two howitzers the enemy was using at Pooneryn. so with the SLAF primed and ready to silence the heavy guns....using the Mechanised Infantry to full use... Minimsing casualties would ofcourse be the main concern.
These are all hypothetical, couch potato assumptions but worth discussing.
Yep, I do read SF-3's blog. Super but very different to DN and DW.
keep writing bro and we'll keep reading (and posing hypothetical queries - hope it'll not be attrition warfare of words to you)
mottapala said...
ReplyDeleteSoon we will see 'Matara Bath kade' in Killinochchi. We could hold mega musical shows in there where tamils girls and boys could dance till morning to Bathiya & Santhush. They would understand there is a life other than sacrificing their asses for a Joker.
hehehehe yov dude don't dream buddy ...try to think about your next meal...all the tamil will dance when the sinhala army chased out from the tamils homelands thats not very far... don't worry i'll donate some for the people who lives in south when they starving... wait for a week prices gonna increase ...
you better think about the own people who lives in south in the villages rather than who lives in north
SilentKnight,
ReplyDeleteyes pal. for the moment SLAF using that old C130K tanker to get parts for the existing C130. they were both used as Aerial Tankers for The Royal Air Force.
Looks like the Muslims tried very hard to get fox Ranil elected
ReplyDeletehttp://www.lankanewspapers.com/news%5C2008%5C5%5Cimages%5Cnewsz_new35011.jpg
Too bad for them.
On a lighter note, I hear that Lakdiva is being built in Arabian Gulf.
Tamils should stop teasing the Sinhala about they women scrubbing toilets in the Middle East.
The women are actually helping build Lakdiva.
I am sure that the Mahavamsa: Arabic Edition is being written at this very minute. Soon the Arabs who came from Egypt will be disenfranchised, and Lakdiva will be back to its former glory.
sure thing peter. We learned a lot from you guys.... in fact we learnt everything from you guys. Stuff like rewriting history....
ReplyDelete[Soon we will see 'Matara Bath kade' in Killinochchi. ]
ReplyDeleteThink big... real big... and... think real.
It's not a 'bath kade'... that's going to be seen there.. it's going to be the sprawling new complex of SLA Headquaters there...
That'll awaken the LTTE coolies from their daydream.
The white paper is already understudy.
-
ReplyDeleteDr. Bervyn Silva seizes Russian Embassy-owned prime land
ok thats it this guys gotta be shot ASAP
There is no point in talking about modification of C130 or what ever. Airforce is good for wasting money, either by buying new aircrafts or getting what they have blasted. They must be thinking this war cannot be won with out 50 apches and 75 F117s etc. When there was criticism towards buying this Mig29 they said somebloody multilayer prtection system.
ReplyDeleteWhat bloody multilayer protection when we cannot shoot down two prpeller driven recreational aircrafts?
You guys sounds to me like 'nasthikara putrayas'. First thing is to get this airforce and navy sorted out. Protect what you already got before asking for new things. Then use them effectively. This kind of war you cannot find in books. We send genarals to sandhurst for a year spending millions and next year they retire.
Army is better at war because they know if they dont look after their backs theay get their asses shot. There is nobody to help them neither air force nor bloody navy.
Somebody in the Gov should think simply and logically and get this right, otherwise we are doomed.
mottapala
ReplyDeletethe air force full of incompetent bureaucrats in the higher levels who deserve the firing squad, The army on the other hand has gone long long way.
We are not going to start ethnic roits here on this blog or in SLanka.Thankfully more people have the right to choose their preferred party now.Sometime ago some people thought commander pilliyan is a crook+mass murderer..Regardless of how many ships are blown up.. one fact is for certain..either way the LTTE are over.We all know this..so do ALL the good people of the eastern province.The thaamil diasphora can live comfortably overseas and lets leave it at that.
ReplyDeleteAt a guess a lot of money was thrown into the eastern elections by these LTTE cronies for the UNP to win..they would have won EELAM by default if this had happened.
ReplyDeletecorrection here:The LTTE supporting thaamil diasphora..
ReplyDelete@ mottapala,
ReplyDeletenasthikara puthraya's?......
help me out here,...
we were talking abt a better way to channel local ingenuity (in the form of R&D) to make the maximum use of resources available at hand to win the war.
this idea it seems to you makes us "nasthikara puthrayo"..??
add to that the fact that you seem against any procurement of "sophisticated western weaponry" ,.
what course of action would you recommend???,.....complain about whats being done, as well as whats not being done?
you said that someone should fix up the airforce and navy,....agreed, but hopefully not by someone as narrow minded as you.
Guy's check this link out.
ReplyDeleteA little excerpt from the article:
"Contrary to the claims of its critics, the International Crisis Group has not called for, does not support, and does not have any plans to support any military intervention into Sri Lanka. The International Crisis Group has never questioned the sovereignty or territorial integrity of Sri Lanka: indeed it has publicly called on the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam to renounce any claim to an independent state. It has always tried to work with the government of Sri Lanka to assist it in better protecting its citizens from the horrors of war and terrorist attacks. "
It's written by an organisation call the International Crisis Group who provide advice to governments. Run by the former Australian Foreign Minister.
About the organisation:
The International Crisis Group is now generally recognised as the world’s leading independent, non-partisan, source of analysis and advice to governments, and intergovernmental bodies like the United Nations, European Union and World Bank, on the prevention and resolution of deadly conflict.
machang,
ReplyDeleteBro no offense to you..
screw all these "crisis groups"..from day one of this conflict we have had one crisis group after another..now they can goto burma with the "human rights" groups..after all these guys need their jobs desperately
Thanks for the pat on the back, mate. OK, I see the benefits of a strategy “in the likes of a battle for hindenberg line' rather than a'mini normandy'” would be more suitable. Mottapala is also proposing a more “SLA intensive” battle than a “more SLAF intensive” battle. (more because SLAF will never be the biggest “doers” in any battle as they perform rather a support role). the topic is whether to increase the role of the SLAF beyond a “reasonable” proportion or not.
ReplyDeleteContrary to you and mottapala, i think we should increase the role of the SLAF even beyond the largest ever proportions we have seen in the past. i respect your views and accept the fact that I can be wrong.
My points are these.
1. Tigers use a very heavy amount of APMs, landmines, monster mines, mortars, arti.
2. The northern FDL has a long stretch of “no-man’s land” and tigers are capable of “plasmatic” defences and offensive formations.
3. Due to these they can significantly reduce the number of our men reaching their positions and reduce our fighting capability.
4. considering 1-3 above, I think a SLAF role that goes beyond destroying LTTE arti. positions should be expected. But OTOH tigers use many groups of few cadres making the SLAF ineffective. We should find a means of higher airborne capability (by long airborne planes or a roster system or even deploying hot-air balloons – subject to feasibility). At the same time LTTE supplies should also need to be bombed.
5. of course the SLN should be dragged to it as there is a lot of potential in these coastal areas. If SLN vessels can be used to fire heavy arti., MBRLs, that opens up a whole new window of opportunity. These arti. can reach LTTE areas never seemed reachable.
6. OK I agree it was infantry that actually won all battles. No denying that.
Simply I suggest more of the US approach to Germany in WW2 than more of the Soviet approach.
Son-of-a-gun and firerain suggested a large scale bombardment may be in the likes of Dresden. Good but only suitable for large tiger areas with mostly military installations. Apparently there are a few such locations I hear (though smaller than Dresden).
as regards hypothesis generation – won’t disappoint you.
BTW You may also enjoy following Robert McNamara’s work (in addition to MD, ST, etc.). He has a humongous amount of experience (may be the most experienced in the world) not only in winning wars but also gained from losing!!
that was in reply to Shan.
ReplyDelete"Dr. Bervyn Silva seizes Russian Embassy-owned prime land"
ReplyDeleteThis stupid, retarded, goddamn moron (stronger language should be used to describe him) is now going to create a tension with Russia. For god's sake Russia, send a spetsnaz team and finish him off (or at least a simple road accident will do..... but better to make sure eh?). Everybody will thank you for it, more than for everything you've done for us so far. The last thing we want now is problems with Russia, when all the wise guys in the world calling for R2P and all that.
chamal,
ReplyDeletesince the key "B" is closer to "M", can i assume it was that mandabuddika mervyn silva again?
this is a joke. as long as the president mollycoddles him he is safe.
so the real idiot is the president if the news item is true.
DefenceNet Bro
ReplyDelete- was the ship empty at the time of the attack ?
can you conform this please!!!
It was sunk in 13 minuets with full of explosives.
ReplyDeletecheck this links:
www.tamilnet.com/art.html?catid=13&artid=25590
http://www.lakbimanews.lk/defence.htm
Guys,
ReplyDeleteThe ship can be brought up as it is in shallow water; The Navy is confident that they can repair it for their use again.
A bit of consolation.
The more i think of the eastern election..i get this feeling that both the LTTE and UNP used a lot of funds here.If you can use your money to get thaamil EELAM why not.If the UNP won the consequences would have been devestating for the whole country.Yes a lot of LTTE funds were spent here..That bukamuna sampanthan won as well.Lets hope that ward place will not become thaamil EELAM.
ReplyDelete@ Moshe Dyan
ReplyDeletein my humble opinion SLAF is a 'shy bride' or moreso 'the rich cousin' who hands out when you ask. Aen't so much resources wasted. We see an air attack or CAS once in a while. It's like the SLAF has a couple of Aircrafts, another couple of 'MI 24's'.
Shouldn't the SLAF be launching attacks throughout. Isn't that what the Amricans did in the Gulf Wars.
quote 'Son-of-a-gun and firerain suggested a large scale bombardment may be in the likes of Dresden. Good but only suitable for large tiger areas with mostly military installations. Apparently there are a few such locations I hear (though smaller than Dresden). unquote
1.Isn't the Northern front Muhamalai to EPS and the Pooenryn sector exclusive LTTE military zones devoid of civillians.
2. Cannot the SLAF undertake all out Air Attacks on a much higher scale - as you say 'we should increase the role of the SLAF even beyond the largest ever proportions we have seen in the past. .'Softening the targets for an infantry assault - as they say.
a). another very valid point you make needs to be discussed - We should find a means of higher airborne capability (by long airborne planes or a roster system or even deploying hot-air balloons – subject to feasibility).
I think what you mean here is to reduce the time SLAF takes to take a target. This was my point as well when I said SLAF primed and ready. I've read that SLAF missed several high profile targets because they need 4 hours from the word go to prepare the jets and deliver.
b. SLN should be dragged to it...... makes a lot of sense.
so what we all say is that the heavy guns Arti, MBRL's etc should be used more effectively plus the SLAF and SLN should be used on a higher scale ...
Thaks for the tip on McNamara, just glanced through some writings and it gives a different aspect what i enjoy reading - more hands on military leadership, those great ones who excelled in strategy and never failing to surprise the enemy outclassing them. the people who actually fought was my liking and that includes lots including the gentleman Gen. Kobbekaduwa. Never had much regard for policy makers but McNamara sound different.
good luck mate
qurious,
ReplyDeleteBro..Is the navy currently salvaging the ship..:)
This suicide bomber who took out the ship was 4 months pregnant.?A "tiger bull" job definitely.Interesting this..you make a women pregnant and convert her into a suicide bomber..
ReplyDeletesrilankan,
ReplyDelete"Bro..Is the navy currently salvaging the ship..:)"
If the ship was at the pier when it sank as claimed, then it will have to be salvaged. Otherwise they won't be able to use the pier.
Given that it will be in shallow water , it won't be difficult to salvage depending on how it went down (i.e. upright or on its side).
Shan,
ReplyDelete1.Isn't the Northern front .......exclusive LTTE military zones devoid of civillians.
Yep.
2. Cannot the SLAF undertake all out Air Attacks on a much higher scale
Probably they can; the total bomb weight of approx 4-6 MT each by the number of planes is huge.
... SLAF.......need 4 hours from the word go to prepare the jets and deliver.
A good observation. I recall the SLAF resposnse to LTTE shelling palali earlier this year. It took 3.5 hrs.
Agree on McNamara; he was not a hands on man; may be i like his mathematical reasoning.
Cheers mate.
@ Moshe Dyan
ReplyDelete" Son-of-a-gun and firerain suggested a large scale bombardment may be in the likes of Dresden. Good but only suitable for large tiger areas with mostly military installations. Apparently there are a few such locations I hear (though smaller than Dresden)."
I don't now about son of a gun but this was not the message I was conveying. We were dicussing the use of AC-130s, which not be very useful in our situation.
We need more roaming missions targeting troop movement of the LTTE.
The Navy needs to at least double the number of FACs. Sri Lanka is an Island the navy is the most important but most neglected of our forces. We have limited ability to prevent arms shipments reaching LTTE areas. The army should also help them by capturing the Western seaboard so navy's resources can be more concentrated around Mullativu.
Once LTTE becomes trapped inland their defeat(inhilation) will be guranteed.
"I've read that SLAF missed several high profile targets because they need 4 hours from the word go to prepare the jets and deliver.'
ReplyDeleteyep SLAF should have at least a couple of planes ready @ all times and a flight of piolts on duty @ all times (2-4 in SLAF case). Ground crew should also be ready.
Though different armaments for different missions, SlAF should have enough planes to do this.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/Suicide_bomber_sunk_Navy_ship_says_Lankan_official/articleshow/3032588.cms
ReplyDeleteSuicide bomber sunk Navy ship, says Lankan official
COLOMBO: A piece of torso of a person and diving equipments were found floating near the drowned Sri Lankan Naval ship, suggesting the handiwork of a suicide bomber in destruction of the vessel last week, an official said on Monday.
The Navy is currently investigating the Saturday dawn explosion that ripped through a navy logistic ship, A 520 (MV Invincible).
Navy divers have recovered body parts of the suspected LTTE suicide cadre from the waters where the Tigers sank a navy cargo ship in the Trincomalee harbour on Saturday, the navy spokesman D K P Dassanayake said.
"Our divers found parts of lower portion of the body of the suspected suicide cadre body along with diving equipment from the sea," he said, adding the identity of the suicide bomber has not been established.
The navy believes the suicide cadre had used a suicide jacket for the blast as only the lower part of the body was recovered.
The tiger militants had earlier claimed that the naval ship explosion was the handiwork of their Commandos from "Kangkai Amaran unit".
The LTTE also claimed the underwater attack was carried out when the supply vessel was loaded with explosives to be transported to KKS Harbour in Jaffna.
However, officials denied that the ship was being loaded with explosives.
No one was injured due to the blast which according to the LTTE led to the sinking of the ship within 13 minutes of explosion.
Shay,
ReplyDeletethanks mate.hope we can recover it.
Nice to read your posts after a break
defencenet, guys
ReplyDeleteSeems like the beginnig of the end part for Sri-lanka has already began.the debacle at nagarkovil,unloading of more AMMO stocks, EVEN with increased radar coverage, intensive patrolling,etc,sounds like the SLN(and other services) is going into a watery grave...
qrious, in an earlier thread, u pointed out that i was impartial in supporting of sides in the conflict. u r partly true.I'm definitely for crushing terrorism in all its guises, but when a guuerilla organization continously scores winnings like these all of a sudden(after a small gap of time). i really have to admire their tactics(in military ops),not terrorist bombings of civilian targets...
Hope that shithead SLAF chief donald whats his fuckin name resigns, along with fonseka of the SLA.i say we should retain the SLN commander becoz he has done an ok job so far.
30 SLA killed, 7 bodies recovered, arms seized in Mannaar - LTTE (tamilnet)photos of SLA kiled included
ReplyDeleteappears to me this site has gained INCREASED credibility when compared to defence.lk site, which posts 100% BS.
Srilankan
ReplyDeleteWe must salvage that sunken ship using the expertise of Mr Ariyasila Wickramanayake’s company, who also owns Palwatte sugar company. They may be able to get the people to recover that ship.
Wonder if the vessel is in a repairable state....
ReplyDelete"A-520 was sunk due to heavy damages caused to its hull"
If the damages are too high the vessel won't be any use and it's better to get a new one. But at least we can reuse the valuable equipment.
They say a suicide bomber blew up the ship...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.dailymirror.lk/DM_BLOG/Sections/frmNewsDetailView.aspx?ARTID=14494
[Chennai (PTI): Congress, a key ally of Tamil Nadu's ruling DMK, on Monday demanded a ban on pro-LTTE organisations in the state and asked the state government to deal with "scourge of terrorism with iron hand."
ReplyDelete"Terrorism of any kind, whether it be from Sri Lanka or within the state (Maoists) or communal, should be dealt with an iron hand," senior Congress leader D Sudarshanam told the state assembly while participating in the debate on the demand for grants to the Home Department held by Chief Minister M Karunanidhi.
]
he he he
Moshe Dyan
ReplyDeletethe observation is certainly not mine but DW's. DW's write on 22nd Febtitled SLAF delay gets LTTE off the hook... says quote "A four-hour delay in a bombing run by the Sri Lanka Air Force resulted in a missed high-profile decapitation strike planned several days ago. The target was a conference attended by 'Colonels' Swarnam, Bhanu and Jeyam in north Mannar.
The SLAF usually takes four hours to prep the jets, from the point of receiving the Military Intelligence tipoff to the actual delivery of the designated payload to the target. As a result, by the time the bombs were dropped, the Tiger conference had concluded." unquote. DW also adds "The conference attended by all three tiger leaders was confirmed through both ground and aerial recon....." if SLAF suceeded this would have been a decapitating blow to the LTTE. The psychological blow would have sunk morale and would have been deadlier than the physical loss itself.
and next para says "Yesterday's bombing of LTTE heavy gun positions in Mannar north has also been inaccurate for the same reasons."
The X Ray base was hit with 24 bunker busters but the buster himslef aka VP had left.
These are known cases of four hour...prep time.
This is why I was talking of SLAF primed and ready before a strike at northern FDL's, if not too many casualties by the time SLAF arrives and big guns towed away.
I am certainly not a military man to make such careful observations but an avid reader and student (literaly) of matters military (albeit the late fourties). may be SLAF was a ceremonail force when we were young or I was too much a coward to jon. either way i regret not...
firerain
so here you are the cases of missed targets.
firerain
ReplyDeleteyou'll find it intersting to go back to DW's write up on 22nd Feb and also the comments
"A police Sergeant was shot dead and another injured when the LTTE pistol gang fired at them this evening at Arasadi junction in Batticaloa, police said." -- DailyNews
ReplyDeleteProbably the "liberation" Mahinda maama was talking about.
Kevin,
ReplyDeleteSounds like a good idea bro..i am sure the brass are looking into it.Lets pray that that the best man gets the job as opposed to the closest relative
[Chennai (PTI): Congress, a key ally of Tamil Nadu's ruling DMK, on Monday demanded a ban on pro-LTTE organisations in the state and asked the state government to deal with "scourge of terrorism with iron hand." ]
ReplyDeleteMan.... I canot stop laughing... when I see how hard these Indians are kicking the faces of the LTTE and Tamil Diapora coolies.... who once thought that Indians are going to create a lalaland in the heart of Motherlanka.
But still these coolies are prepared to go lick the feet of the Indians....
A real bunch of born 'liberators'... sure to swallow another d-rope!
hoooo hoooo hooooo
[Probably the "liberation" Mahinda maama was talking about.
ReplyDelete]
No no no... Mahinda maama is really frightened of LTTE bombings and threats... and he is going to have immediate 'piece' talks with the LTTE pigs... and give back the East to the LTTE under a brand new CFA, sponsored by Norway!
In the meantime can you tell me...where have have all the LTTE coolie-demonstraters in the west gone?
'Simply I suggest more of the US approach to Germany in WW2 than more of the Soviet approach'
ReplyDeleteApproch of WWII airforces were mass scale destruction esp of well built cities thus forcing the enemy to submission. For that they had thousands of bombers and fighter planes. And there wasn't any IC, AI or UN for that matter to protest. Where are we going to bomb in Killinochchi. At the moment the use of airforce is to bomb specific targets. MBRL's are much better in covering advancing troups.
Money spend on buying more planes can be used to buy 100s of MBRL. I am not saying we shouldn't buy them at all.
I wonder whether we could use cheap cesnas and robinsons for 24/7 surveilence duties fixed with IR cameras. Or cant we get help of military sattelites for surveilance. Even if we have to pay a hefty sum it will be worth while.
i say shut the hell up armchair generals and let the real men do the work, im speaking to both patriots and LTTE dicksuckers
ReplyDeletehttp://seperatism.blogspot.com/
ReplyDeletemy new blog where you can find news on separatism worldwide. updates everyday.
SriLankan,
ReplyDeleteThe navy hope it is feasible to salvage it; do you remember, they carried out a similar operation for a vessel that sank near Kayts, a couple of months ago and got it on to the surface.
There is a danger in relying upon high-tech devices alone. This incident remind us of that fact very clearly indeed.
A few years ago, the US destroyer, USS Cole, was attacked by two islamic militants on a boat when she was at anchor, in the harbour of Aden off the coast of Yemen. The two men even saluted each other before bringing the boat next to the ship and then blowing themselves up. The sophisticated technical devices that the US boasts about, neither detected them nor prevented the catastrophe from happenning: 17 sailors dead and 26 injured with material loss that ran into millions and loss to prestige that will certainly run into decades to come.
Technology is a must; but it is not a substitute for commonsense. There has been a failure in human factor that led to this set-back. Only conolation is the absence of the loss of lives - apart from the bomber.
Renegade, I am pleased with your attitude towards the ending of terrorism. However, that attitude and finding only faults with our defence forces, I have to say, are mutually exclusive, not complementary. A slight correction is needed.
I hope ground realities will facillitate that moral operation.
Interesting dialogue and good thinking. This is the lvel we need to maintain in this forum.
ReplyDeleteIn the meantime the SLG is sitting on its nuts without taking effective and measurable actions against those who asposor terror from abroad. I've repeatedly pushed for two things the govt needs to implement;
1. List known terror fund raisers and contributors in an international terrorism watch list. These can cause credible employment and travel related problems to the people involved.
2. Ban the culprits from flying Sri Lankan air lines for teh same reason. There would be some serious concerns raised by that to other air lines worldwide and that would make the coolies have to walk or swim to their imaginary eLam.
mottapala,
ReplyDeleteIf you read the next sentence in what i wrote i have included your concerns.
"but only suitable for large tiger areas with mostly military installations. Apparently there are a few such locations I hear (though smaller than Dresden)."
So the IC, etc. issues won't arise (than their usual rhetoric).
I agree that we should use cheaper yet more relatively effective (benefit/cost) planes, etc. If the MiG-29 deal is unsubstantiated (we don't know the REAL thinking behind their purchase still), that means we could have purchased 25 MiG-27s or 12 brand new Mi-35s (hypothetically) which would be much more useful than 4 MiG-29s.
Also one cannot brush aside cessnas (especially fitted with the russian air launched RPGs(?)) and robinsons for limited operations like you said.
But we cannot use MBRLs becasue MBRLs simply don't have the range to reach large tiger installations. the moment our MBRLs come within firing range to tiger positions, they themselves come within LTTE arti. range. agree?
But if SLAF can destroy LTTE arti. positions that can target our assets, then we have a walk-over (well, kind of).
Another way to do it is using SLN vessels to carry RM-70/85s on board or use other means of MBR/MLRS systems on board SLN vessels (subject to feasibility). Then we not only have a new opening, we would also have the mobility!!
In the northern front, given the geographics of close proximity to the sea, a larger number of LTTE positions can be encircled this way. Once again subject to feasibility.
MD
ReplyDeleteMBRL's on SLN vessels sounds cool in concept but i'm not sure whether we have large, stable enough vessels to carry those to effect and also be able to get close enough to the shore to fire em at land targets...
Maybe a naval expert can chime in...
Unlike with larger modern navies in the world we don't seem to have found enough reasons to invest in big guns for even our biggest of ships...
ranil,
ReplyDeleteyes; i doubt the feasibility but don't think it is outright impossible.
also i agree that our vessels do not have big guns.
but vessels need not come close to shore to fire at land targets.
suppose a RM-70 is carried on board a ship, it has a range of approx. 25km. in EPC, the land strip is 8km.
so a RM-70/85 on board a vessel can fire 13km-25km away in the sea (in theory).
this will give access to VERY DEEP LTTE targets.
they can't easily fire at us as we are moving!!
@ Moshe Dyan
ReplyDeleteWhat about sea tigers?
firerain,
ReplyDelete"What about sea tigers?"
no problem.
"what ? no problem ?, just 3 days ago they sunk a ship!! and over the past so many months we lost 4 or more crafts to sea tigers"
(this is me)
yes. we lost vessels to STs on predictable, non-offensive movements. STs rarely (next to never) approached the SLN when it is on an offensive because SLN has the sea supiroirity over STs.
Only problem was STs had the benefit of surprise.
even many ST attacks were "attention diverters" as they know if the SLN concentrate on their arms shipments, they are doomed. so the only way is to divert attention.
imagine a situation where SLN is on the offensive and the benefit of stealth is also with them!!!
wow!
MD
ReplyDeletefully with you on ST analysis...
they have almost never taken on SLN head on in a full blown offensive...
especially with us having air superiority also over ST... they wouldn't wan to risk their heavier vessels...
But ST are very good at limited ops and surprise attacks...
EPC seems to be a stretch tigers are willing to hold onto despite heavy losses. I'm not sure sure of the exact reasons but what seems to be clear is that whatever the tactics we have used thus far hasn't worked so it's high time we get a bit more "creative"
Maybe like you say we would need seaborne fire support too...
I think it's pointless to take on that front again without having a complete re-think about our present strategies
False Bearings of a Moral Compass
ReplyDeleteThe bomb had been hidden under a private bus in Piliyandala, close to the town centre; the culprit received a phone call, possibly from London, with specific instructions; he placed it inside a bus, which happened to be the most crowded at the time and just got off in a cool manner, waited until it turned in to the main road and activated the remote device - 26 dead and an equally large number or more received life-long injuries.
The brute got into a three-wheeler, paid the driver Rs 500, when the actual cost was just Rs 150, threw away the device, went to the safe house, turned the TV on watched what was unfolding on the screen with glee.
Guys you are not catching a glimpse of a miniature version of Clint Eastwood movie. This is real life.
As all straight roads lead to Rome, the chain of command, that triggered off the bomb, when traced backwards, converges to a familiar figure - Vellupillai Prabhakaran.
This is a man who once famously said that his inspiration for what he calls freedom struggle, came while reading the great Hindu text - the Bhagawat Geeta.
It is quite ironic a significant section of Tamil society just took it at face value, something most of them now regret.
His penchant for murder without a trace of remorse, despite being borne into a family of noble parents, defies rational explanation.
Posing for photographs in military fatigue with weapons that he fancies and crying his heart out at the death of a close subordinate, according to any known military doctrine, are not on the same side of a coin; this is a man of stark contrasts.
We all know he has followers. It is now blindingly obvious what he has been achieving for the past three decades - just destruction after destruction. He is about to leave a legacy behind him as a serial saboteur.
In addition to reading heavy religious texts, he is also very keen on following the movies of a certain Hollywood actor. His inspiration also drawn from two contracting sources.
When someone thrives on ignorance with the shield of brutality hanging around the neck, any interpretation of history is possible for one's own advantage, be it religion, literature or military legacy.
Such a joker will not hesitate to believe that Rome was divided by a pair of Ceasers!!! His means of achieiving separation of a country resonates with silly mechanisms too.
We made a collective mistake by branding this folk in the bunker as brutal and ruthless.
We should have branded him as chronically sick - with no sign of recovery.
Psychopaths have the lowest probability of recovery, by law of averages - I mean complete one.
For a vast section of Tamils, both in Sri Lanka and abroad, his brand of nationalism has been an acute embarassment. Because his name, and his orgainization are fast becoming synonyms for violence and brutality.
Tamils do not want to associate with those definitions.
Any one who follows the bearing of this compass is going to be at a loss in wilderness - may be for ever.
Peeter has been warned once in advance - a series will follow.
A tactic for Muramaale (Muhamale)..
ReplyDeleteFDL will thrust forward on the ground, Hellicopter gunships on the ready for CAS on the FDLs.
Air attacks near the EP end of the A9. Helicopters and bombing raids.
Fire support from the sea along the stretch from FDL to EP end.
Is this viable? Can we build on this?
Ranil
ReplyDeleteI read an analysis either by MD or SF-3 which said that the moment you break though the northern FDL's and get through EP you are at the doorstep of Killinochchi and Millaitivu Districts. Both areas are then within reach of SLA's MBRL's and Arti. Moreover'It's a shorter route to Killinochchi than A32.
that analysis is your answer to why LTTE is holding onto EPS at whatever cost. I'll probably point you to that write up when i have a bit more time on my hands.
Ranil
ReplyDelete"MBRL's on SLN vessels sounds cool in concept but i'm not sure whether we have large, stable enough vessels to carry those to effect and also be able to get close enough to the shore to fire em at land targets..."
Our bigger ships (OPV's and maybe Nandimithra class) can be fitted with MBRL's. Not RM-70 obviously, but smaller ones are enough. Fitting them with smaller MBRL's (maybe even 12 barelled) will do, and anyway I don't think we have a vessel that can carry an RM-70 and enough ammunition for it. MBRL's don't have a heavy recoil like artillery guns so we don't really need battleships to carry them. Range of about 10km will be more than enough I think, if the vessel has a good escort against sea tiger attacks.
Thambala,
What you have given is the general idea when launching any major attack on the Northern FDL. (And exactly what did not happen in Muhamalai recently) More advanced tactics are employed during the advance according to the ground situation, terrain, resistance etc. Only difference is air attacks are launched on LTTE command centers instead of just attacking EP.
Chamal,
ReplyDeleteto achieve such a combined operation we need really good coordination.
Does the joint operations command still exist?
Thambala,
ReplyDelete"Does the joint operations command still exist?"
lol... I don't know but the JOC seems to be pretty clueless on what's going on these days. Army does what they want, and Navy and Air Force don't know anything about it until everything is over. Same thing with the Navy and AF as well. If we are not making use of the so called JOC, it's about time we stopped it. It's no use making up things just to keep the retired commanders feel 'involved' wasting a lot of money, if it does nothing useful.
"Our bigger ships (OPV's and maybe Nandimithra class) can be fitted with MBRL's. Not RM-70 obviously, but smaller ones are enough"
ReplyDeleteWell, the 122mm RM70/BM-21 is about as small as they come. Far too big for Saar 4, and can only be fitted on an OPV if you don't want the helicopter deck and other areas. Have you seen how big these rockets are (relative to our ships) and how much space it takes to store/reload? About the only thing smaller is the 107mm (?) (like what we captured from LTTE), which have much less range and payload or maybe the old BM-14.
Modern ships are not designed for shore bombardment (except maybe some Soviet type amhibious attack ships, which are huge). MBRL's are inaccurate as it is without having to worry about stabilising it for naval use.
Much easier to acquire some 200mm+ MBRL's which have enough range to reach anypoint in LTTE controlled area from well outside their artillery range. Would be cheaper as well.
However, there is a North Korean FAC which is basically a 20m boat with a BM-21 mounted on it. Don't think it can reload though. You can find it in Jane's Warship Guide.
SRI LANKA: Sinking of A 520/MV Invincible in Trincomalee
ReplyDeleteGuest Column by Commodore RS Vasan IN (Retd)
(The views expressed are his own)
Reports indicate that a SLN logistic support ship was sunk at about 0223 hrs on Saturday 09 May 2008. The ship was next to Ashroff Jetty at Trincomalee and was being loaded with explosives to be carried to KKS. This ship itself came in to the possession of the SL Navy by a court order way back in 2003 when it was apprehended transporting illegal migrants in Southern Sri Lanka. The ship was more than 38 years old and was regularly used for logistic support for the Sri Lankan armed forces. Ironically the earlier name of the ship “Invincible” did nothing to prevent the ship from meekly submitting to the designs of the black tigers.
Before coming to a conclusion on what would have caused the sinking it would be in order to examine the methods/options, which could be adopted for launching of such attacks. There are many options as far as underwater attacks are concerned.
The First is an attack by a suicide diver strapped with explosives who could approach the target underwater with out being detected, cling on to any vulnerable portion of the ship and detonate the explosives .The results of an underwater explosion on the hull are always a devastating one and invariably results in breaking up of the ship and subsequent sinking. In this case some reports have indicated that the ship sank with in 13 minutes of the attack. Apparently there was no loss of lives.
The Second method is to attach a limpet mine to the underwater hull of the ship and this could be set to explode either with a timing device or with a fuzing device that could activate with sound or pressure or movement in its vicinity. In such cases the diver could get away from the scene of action. However during the process of his retreat from the ship if he is detected, the success of the operation would be compromised and would lead to bottom searches of the target ship and neutralization of the limpet mine. The black tigers would not have liked any compromise and thus would have preferred the suicide option.
Related aspects of carrying out such attacks have been discussed in an analysis of the sinking of a Fast Attack Craft on 22nd March 2008 vide http://southasiaanalysis.org/papers27/paper2652.html
The depths off Trinco and even alongside berths are very much favourable for such attacks. I can vouch for this fact from my first hand experience in the harbour from where I operated for some time during the early 90s.The fact that the ship was stationery and the crew perhaps busy with the loading operations may have contributed to not detecting the diver and the resultant success of this operation by the Commandos of the LTTE.
The Third option is for the human torpedoes to be used against the target. The SL Navy officials have apparently has ruled this out. From the point of view of the Sea Tigers, the suicide attack would indeed have been the choice of execution against heavily defended targets.
The pattern of operations suggests that the tactic adopted is similar to the one that was followed during the sinking of a fast attack aircraft on 22nd Mar 2008 except that in the former case, the FAC was moving at sea and in the latter case the target was stationery in a protected harbour.
Having examined all the three options, based on the facts and reports available so far, it can be inferred that the underwater defence systems in place were breached by a suicide diver who succeeded in detonating explosives next to the old underwater hull of the ship MV A 520 resulting in the sinking of the logistic support vessel
Comments on the preparedness of SL Navy
It appears that the established precautions for thwarting an underwater attack were either not in place or failed to prevent the impending attack. The standard practice for preventing underwater attacks by divers is to have boat patrols and drop random scare charges to deter the divers. Divers also search the bottom of the ships at regular intervals to spot any explosive that may have been attached. The shipside is rigged with lights for ready use and upper deck sentries are posted to spot any activity that may raise suspicion of the presence of saboteurs.
Most Navies adopt a calibrated degree of preparedness to ensure that the threat is tackled in a timely and efficient manner by denying the use of the waters to saboteurs in a protected harbour. Many navies also use their sonars to cause damage to the eardrums, impair hearing and deter the diver by use of high underwater sound power. Such measures depend on the threat perception and the degree of alertness assumed in a particular location. In addition it is also a practice to have grapnels towed behind the patrolling boat (similar to trawling operations) to cause injury to the saboteurs. Whether all these measures were in place is not known.
Sri Lankan Navy has been credited with the sinking of more than a dozen logistic ships of the LTTE, which were employed for carrying the essentials from many parts of the Indian Ocean for sustaining the war effort. The ship that was sunk was apparently also used in the operations against three logistic ships of the Sea Tigers off Coco Island in 2007.
This is the second such sinking in the last two months. While the names of the three suicide attackers were given out soon after the attack on the Fast Attack Craft two months ago, all that has been mentioned in this case by the Tamil net is that the Commandos from Kangkai Amaran unit of the Sea tigers executed the attack. This unit apparently was named after a Senior Commander of the Sea Tigers who was killed in Mannar District in an attack by the Deep Penetration Unit of the Sri Lankan Navy in Jun 2001.
In conclusion, it is clear that that the Sea tigers still have the capability to surprise the SL Navy and would like to regain the control of the seas which is so essential for the tigers to replenish from many parts of the world including southern India.
The use of underwater divers for attack while not being novel has the potential to cause serious damages, loss of morale amongst the forces and disrupt planned activities at sea. The success of such operations would have deleterious impact on the ongoing operations of Sri Lankan forces, which are trying to move supplies and military hardware through the eastern sea routes to KKS. One can safely assume that more such attacks and all the options discussed above would be exercised by the Sea Tigers to wrest the initiative from the Sri Lankan Navy, which has enjoyed some successes in the recent months.
(The author with distinguished naval and coast guard service for over 34 years is presently with Observer Research Foundation and is steering the Maritime Security Programme under the aegis of International Security Studies (ISS), headed by General VP Malik former Army Chief)
Shay,
ReplyDeleteYes I agree that RM-70 cannot be used in our vessels. Smaller launchers are the only option we can go for.
"Modern ships are not designed for shore bombardment"
Maybe not, but something like that will be useful for us. Not only in shore bombardment but also in large sea battles/attacking retreating enemy boats etc.
(And BTW, just because we discuss these things here the Navy's not going to equip their ships with MBRL's. None of the suggestions here on tactics, R&D etc. are going to be actually used, because rightly or wrongly the officials think that they have the experience and training to know better us. But still, interesting discussions eh?)
With the hard as nails nature of Lt. Gen Sarath Fonseka he has made strong enemies (and the saying goes if you didn't make an enemy you made nothing) as strong as the friends he has won.
ReplyDeleteI can't help but wonder whether this is causing tension between the three forces. Although dealings are done between different rungs in the ranks there could be some policy decisions affecting the cohesiveness of the forces.
If this is the case the president himself should intervene and appoint a very diplomatic person to Sarath Fonseka to liase with other forces.
It is not easy or economical to launch land to land only MBRLs to reach any point in LTTE territory as the higher the distance, the lower becomes the accuracy.
ReplyDeletethe sea front offers the benefit of proximity to many unreachable locations with more or less existing technology. it also allows mobility. tigers will find it VERY difficult to handle a moving fire launcher!!
However, the chinese WS-1B seems a crazy rocket launching system that can have a range of 80km with >1% deviation. these are very long (5m) with 300mm diameter rockets. also very expensive.
it is very doubtful whether the govt. will ever go for such very long range rockets in this war which is a civil war in nature and may lead to huge civilian casualties. a rocket travelling at mach 3.6 with a huge explosive which has a >1% deviation rate is very risky. for a rocket likke this a second means 1 km!!
Then there is the russian over 200mm MBRLs specifically used to destroy enemy armies but with less than 10km range. these were used in chechnya.
some intersting links,
http://www.ramcjournal.com/2001/wounds_of_conflict/dearden.pdf
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/ws1b/
BTW LTTE supporters have DELIBERATELY avoided DW and DN. Usually more than 5 of them would be shouting here. that is why the discussions are decent.
ReplyDeleteThey cannot take in the eastern election. now most of them have become Pillayan supporters because if a muslim becomes a CM, they will be in worse shitt.
they have to choose between the devil and the deep blue sea.
nice trap!
Chamal,
ReplyDelete"Not only in shore bombardment but also in large sea battles/attacking retreating enemy boats etc"
If you want to attack LTTE boats, the easiest and cheapest thing is to put a few Spike ATGM's on the FAC's. They are compatible with the existing Typhoon mount/fire control systems. Unlike MBRL has a greater than 90% single shot hit capability.
Moshe
"the sea front offers the benefit of proximity to many unreachable locations with more or less existing technology"
Not really. First of all you need a huge ship to accomodate even a 122mm MBRL plus rockets and be able to reload at sea (smaller MBRL's are useless and wont do much damage). Even amphibious attack ships carry much smaller MBRL's. They are actually anti-sub rockets like on SLN subchaser, rather than proper MBRL's.
Then you need a stabilised mount for it. Without it, from a rolling ship, MBRL's will be even less accurate than they already are. Might not be easy to get, since nobody currently uses anything like it.
There are lots of 200mm+ MBRL's. Including Pinaka, Astros, BM-27 and BM-30 and Chinese copies of the same. Yuo can also get Israeli and other upgrades for existing RM-70's to make them 160-170mm with much greater range.
"may lead to huge civilian casualties. a rocket travelling at mach 3.6 with a huge explosive which has a >1% deviation rate is very risky"
Its less risky than firing it from a rolling ship (a ship rolling by 1 degree will have the same effect). Coastal areas have more civilians anyway.
Shay,
ReplyDelete"If you want to attack LTTE boats, the easiest and cheapest thing is to put a few Spike ATGM's on the FAC's. They are compatible with the existing Typhoon mount/fire control systems. Unlike MBRL has a greater than 90% single shot hit capability."
Well yes, if we have the money to get them there are a lot of things that we can use. But both missiles and MBRL's are unavailable in our vessels. And the purpose of a guided missile and and a barrage of rocket artillery is different. A missile (used for precision strikes) is intended to destroy a single, designated target while the MBRL's (used for attacking a large area) can be very effective in attacking a large flotilla of boats and for scattering them.
This was just a suggestion. I'm not expecting the navy to fit MBRL's into their boats and I'm not talking about the best way to destroy LTTE boats. If we go about talking of better methods for destroying boats, I can also suggest buying some Apache Longows or Kamov KA-50's , which are all impossible for us.
Blogger Moshe Dyan said...
ReplyDeleteBTW LTTE supporters have DELIBERATELY avoided DW and DN. Usually more than 5 of them would be shouting here. that is why the discussions are decent.
hey dude actually we are reading the post but we are not posting ....coz the difencenet is down and even the DW too.. have you seen any updates from DN or at least any posting.. we are not discussing with the dead guys ..we'll back when the DN is back on its track(by providing lies hehehehe ) till then have fun
Moshe,
ReplyDeletenice to know you missed us.
But, you definitely know the real reason why its been decent in this forum for some time.... the bad mouthing Asithiri is MIA!
Oh my god ...GOD IC has invited the leader of the "singhala buddist chauvenistic govt" to address some crappy function at the wonderful.i mean wonderful university of oxford..We expect many many members of thaamil EELANG to be there..Thankyou GOD IC..he has been waiting for this occassion all his life..GOD IC be praised?
ReplyDelete"Moshe,
ReplyDeletenice to know you missed us."
Thank him for reminding you.
Ms. Maheshwari Velayudan's killer must be hunted down and caught..if not now ..in the future.Once caught we must eagerly assist him to attend Maveer status or what ever.If he voluntaryly attends maveer status then we have to ensure that his grand children attend maveer status as well.This EELAM war is NOT over after the end of the ARMY offensive..there is a lot more to go here.Even though she was not a buddist..may the noble triple gem guide and protect Ms. Maheshwari Velayudan's soul.
ReplyDeleteMoshe,
ReplyDeleteInteresting suggestion on having MBRL on Navy ships. It is difficult to shoot a LTTE boat which is100 meters away with a fixed machine gun due to rolling. There was a significant improvement in getting the target when navy bought automatic satbilising something once target was locked. Firing MBRL from a ship will be like throwing some shit in to a fan. It will be all over the place damaging our own troupes.
If I am a soldier in the front my main concern will be getting the LTTE arty. With out LTTe Arty I can manage APMs. Booby traps, Casualities, etc. I'll will have one and only request fron AF. Get the Arty.
So far air force has not delivered that. I wonder whether they are trying at least. We could have spent the money wasted on Mig 29 on something to find this Artymenance.
I rermember we bought some fire finders during Rivirasa. they turned out to be out dated stuff used in WWII.
LTTE cock suckers say they are not posting only reading because DN is dead. Wonder why they keep on reading.
ReplyDeleteI think we should give CM post to Hisbulla. He is a nice guy and a muslim. Muslims are very nice people and allways stood with us. Even muslim women are prettier than thangachchies. He will do a nice job in devoloping the east.
If he succeds devoloping east may be we can hand over the north as well to him so we could use his experience!
Hello there folks looks like we rose from the dead. Anyway there may not be updates for next 7 or so days, This is due to non availability of network access not because DN is dead or any other lame reason like that.
ReplyDelete[I think we should give CM post to Hisbulla. He is a nice guy and a muslim. Muslims are very nice people and allways stood with us. Even muslim women are prettier than thangachchies. He will do a nice job in devoloping the east.]
ReplyDeleteHilarious!!
Moronpalla is another up and coming entertainer here. What he forgot to mention is that Hisbulla, his 7 wives and kids should throne the East so that they can compete with the army of Mahinda's 100+ ministers.
Updated
ReplyDeletehttp://sf-3.blogspot.com/
An idiot has swallowed the bait!
ReplyDelete